Curse

Coloneh · Feb 17, 2008, 04:33 PM // 16:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue.rellik

You do realize that a dervish is allowed to not use their skills?

make sense plz.

you cant check and make sure your not stripping prot spirit halfway through a spike, and even if you could you cant stop.

LightningHell · Feb 17, 2008, 11:55 PM // 23:55

Realize that if you're in a state where you need the enchantment, you probably won't want to be hitting the enemy. 'Course, there are exceptions, i.e. when you're really desperate, or there's an unparalleled opportunity.

blue.rellik · Feb 18, 2008, 04:56 AM // 04:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

make sense plz.

you cant check and make sure your not stripping prot spirit halfway through a spike, and even if you could you cant stop.

If the other team is able to unload their killing spike into you in half the time you take to activate Pious Assault then they deserve to win.

I mean if you were just snared behind enemy lines and the enemy front-liners all moved towards you and you were just hit with [skill]Shatter Enchantment[/skill] then maybe, just maybe, you might get spiked soon

Or maybe it's just a big coincidence

Hundbert · Feb 18, 2008, 09:34 AM // 09:34

1. Avatar of Balthazar
2. Chilling Victory
3. Pious Assault
4. Eremite's Attack
5. Attacker's Insight
6. Grenth's Aura
7. Pious Fury
8. Resurrection Signet

I found this to be very effective.

Use Attacker's insight first then Grenth's aura.
When you activate Pious fury before the spike you will instantly remove one enchantment on all nearby enemies.
This can do some serious damage.

Shuuda · Feb 18, 2008, 05:16 PM // 17:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hundbert

1. Avatar of Balthazar
2. Chilling Victory
3. Pious Assault
4. Eremite's Attack
5. Attacker's Insight
6. Grenth's Aura
7. Pious Fury
8. Resurrection Signet

I found this to be very effective.

Use Attacker's insight first then Grenth's aura.
When you activate Pious fury before the spike you will instantly remove one enchantment on all nearby enemies.
This can do some serious damage.

I second that, my only problem with it though, is that you have to use Chilling before Pious Assualt to get full benefit from attackers insight, it would be better if you could get the deep wound in before chilling, since it makes it easier to meet the condition then. Good build non the less.

Destromath · Feb 18, 2008, 06:02 PM // 18:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hundbert

1. Avatar of Balthazar
2. Chilling Victory
3. Pious Assault
4. Eremite's Attack
5. Attacker's Insight
6. Grenth's Aura
7. Pious Fury
8. Resurrection Signet

That's the exact build on PvXwiki XD. I have to admit though, the variety of elites popping up in Dervish builds sure is nice after people discovered that spike, rather than Melandru and Lyssa filling up the whole page >_<.

EDIT: Sorry for the double post.

Dante the Warlord · Feb 18, 2008, 06:40 PM // 18:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius-NZ

If you're playing PvE, Lyssa is probably the most straightforward to use and the most universally effective.

Basically you'll want to load up on quick-activating attacks - like Eremite's Attack and Mystic Sweep (you'll notice they have an activation time - this is shorter than the time between the swings of a Dervish's scythe so it makes it faster) and use them like interrupts; go especially for the casters, and try to whack as many of those quick attacks as possible in on them when they're casting a spell (the longer the duration the easier it is to hit). It'll do quite a lot of damage.

More information about effective Lyssa builds is available in this thread (note other builds e.g. Melandru are here also):
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10244740
The PvE-only Lyssa build under section 8 is the one I'm talking about. It doesn't have any defensive skills, meaning you'll need to rely on your monks to help you out there, but the damage it deals out more than makes up for it.

Good luck with your quest.

Thanks, I looked at Lyssa and I think its great, but Melendru seems to be a bit better because I won't be inflicted with damage from condition. Also i can't use that aura of holy might skill

, though i am using the vital boon/signet of pious light combo, which is beautiful for health and little energy lost due to mysticism.

Bowstring Badass · Feb 18, 2008, 06:49 PM // 18:49

We are stilling go to see AoM being run because not being able to get blinded in PvP is worth the 25 energy. But then again [skill]sight beyond sight[/skill] might see some more use.

Randvek · Feb 18, 2008, 06:56 PM // 18:56

Avatar of Balthazar is a great skill for when you throw a build together and realize you don't have an elite. It's something that's only marginally effective, but requires no thought to build around.

Sir Pandra Pierva · Feb 18, 2008, 07:50 PM // 19:50

No even then aob still fails

also that spike is actually really good with lyssa the extra energy is so nice. And the plus uber dmg to anyone who is activating skills makes me spike like old school sins against eles or monks

Turbobusa · Feb 18, 2008, 08:15 PM // 20:15

So you trade a speed boost + automatic warrior & ranger armor bonus bypasser + 40 armor against an hypotethical 34dmg and some more energy when you're doing fine with balth's? I can understand the melandru/balthasar or even balthasar/grenth debate but there is none concerning this build and lyssas.

Balthasar was trash because there was no good deep wound skill to bring when you take it. Now that you have one, which is free thanks to attacker's insight, it becomes quite good.

Darkside · Feb 18, 2008, 08:31 PM // 20:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbobusa

Balthasar was trash because there was no good deep wound skill to bring when you take it. Now that you have one, which is free thanks to attacker's insight, it becomes quite good.

No it's still garbage...

Sir Pandra Pierva · Feb 18, 2008, 08:48 PM // 20:48

exactly

also lyssa if you know how to do it right is much better for dmg than the holy dmg that AoB puts out.

So still even with the buffs
AoL>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>AoB

i dont think there is enough room on a post to show the skill difference

~ Dan ~ · Feb 18, 2008, 09:40 PM // 21:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbobusa

Balthasar was trash because there was no good deep wound skill to bring when you take it. Now that you have one, which is free thanks to attacker's insight, it becomes quite good.

Balthazar was and is trash simply because all the buffs are pretty much useless, and can be gotten with non-elite skills.

Turbobusa · Feb 18, 2008, 10:25 PM // 22:25

Yeah and AoB gives you all in one slot. Since you don't need your elite, that's good bar compression. You'd need a speed boost, a special scythe for warior, and would have to be carful positioning yourself with your 70al. AoB gives you all that + you can overextend a little without being instantly spiked down. Enough for me to call it good.

And lol at buffs being useless. Last time I saw people carried an elemental scythe to bypass warriors armor, and a running stance to avoid being kited. The 40armor comes as a plus. Far from being useless.

Anyway i've been testing it for 3hours today and AoB was the elite I was having the best results with.

AoL's damage is certainly nice but not on a spike bar like the one i'm talking about. Again i'm only talking about that bar.

Turbobusa · Feb 18, 2008, 11:57 PM // 23:57

please read and stop being RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing aggressive. You're not putting your life in so great danger that you would need to be rude and allThis is a freacking game and a we're writing on a forum to discuss options.

**NEWSFLASH:I SAID I WAS TALKING ABOUT THE PIOUS+CHILLING SPIKE BAR.**

so in order since I wont enter quotewars which seems to be the forum game lately.

no you don't need your elite on that.

You need a speed boost to avoid being kited.

Special scythe for warriors = elemental scythe. remember they have +20 against physical? that's 20% AL penetration on each hit. You can keep on using a 20/20 mod for a 36% penetration. LOLWUT again pls.

You have no idea how I play.

please, repeat me that 33% speed boost and 40al is useless. please do. I really want to laugh.

3 hours was enough to come across a lot of builds ran these days, and the build destroyed a lot of them. We won against deer (And I salute them 'cause they were nice enough to recognize their defeat on their 15th) and hurt PnH (while lagging like hell) both running "lame" paraspike, to me they're not bad players, that must mean that the build isn't complete trash.

Melandru allows more flexibility but comparing both spikewise,i'd say the AoB spike hits harder, and is harder to prot. I'm done arguing anyway, people seem to be stubborn on their 2005 bars. I'll just continue running that bar sometimes and rape unaware people that just laugh and ignore me when I cast AoB. If you like that's part of the strategy of this spike.
Also what you call "godmode tree", is just imba, immunity for conditions is just too good. I still don't see why the "lose one condition on hit" clause hasn't been implemented. Or make dwayna immune to hexes to be logic at least.

You won't get lyssa's bonus on every hit except on an ele casting meteor shower while bashed by a lyssa dervish. See that often in gvg? No because good players don't cast 2s+ spells in those situations. So I come up with the conclusion that lyssa is good against bad players. Otherwise you'd see it ran.

PS: i'd like to note again that you said that 33%speed boost and 40AL was bad, and that you hit warrior with physical scythes. That's just too funny comming from someone who tries to appear as a top player.

EDIT: I keep editing this post so you might want to read it again

Coloneh · Feb 19, 2008, 12:25 AM // 00:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbobusa

Yeah and AoB gives you all in one slot. Since you don't need your elite, that's good bar compression. You'd need a speed boost, a special scythe for warior, and would have to be carful positioning yourself with your 70al. AoB gives you all that + you can overextend a little without being instantly spiked down. Enough for me to call it good.

the thing is that it dosnt compress your bar at all, or if it does you build is very bad for a short period of time. you still need a speed boost and elemental scythe for when AoB is down, and if the extra armor is so great why dont people bring non-elite armor buffs?

Turbobusa · Feb 19, 2008, 01:10 AM // 01:10

I agree on the ele scythe when AoB is down, forgot that and you're right. Though what I mean is that you get a damage type you can't protect against (understand +xal shields or +type armor insignias), and unstrippable speed boost or armor buff. People wouldn't want to take armor buffs on dervishes when it take one more slot and is either a stance or in a bad attribute line. this comes as a plus, the main bonuses from AoB are 33% IaM and damage conversion in one slot instead of 3 in a bar that doesn't require a specific elite.

You might want to note again that I'm talking about the recent AoB bar being ran. But Basically:
You want a deep wound. options? wearying melandru, ok, won't argue its maybe the best tho more prot-able and shorter duration.
Wounding strike? I'm not taht fan of that bar but why not.
Then comes pious assault. What elite would you want to go with that? earth prayers ones, yeah right. Scythe mastery? you already got a deep wound. Wind? hum grenth grasp could be fun but too easily dealt with.

Mysticism. If we're looking closely only avatars are worth something. We won't take melandru, because we'd run wearying strike in that case. Dwayna is weirdo, no real hex heavy build are being ran, so no real point in taking that. I already explained why I thought lyssa was sub-part to me. I can understand why people like it but it's too random for me.

Stay grenth or balths. But what I don't like with grenth is that the foe has to remain enchanted to become stronger i.e. target is protected by whatever enchant. Plus, when taking AoB, you carry 1-2 disenchants. So your target isn't protected by enchants when using balths when spiking. Your problem is stances (god I hate frenzied defense when playing melee). But then again the chances that a monk is under SB/PS/SH when using stances is high, so grenth get no real bonus.

AoB because the best dervish option to take when you want to take pious assault.
Note that I said dervish, it's true that this build could use a secondary.

This is how I view the choice of taking AoB. You are free to demonstrate that some other elite is good to take (as long as you don't insult people).

isamu kurosawa · Feb 19, 2008, 01:31 AM // 01:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbobusa

I already explained why I thought lyssa was sub-part to me. I can understand why people like it but it's too random for me.

Its only random if your a button mashing moron. Having 3/4 attack skills triggering +40ishdmg on a weapon like a scythe is better than balth. You can choose whne to use the skills so hardly random.

Coloneh · Feb 19, 2008, 04:22 AM // 04:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by isamu kurosawa

Its only random if your a button mashing moron. Having 3/4 attack skills triggering +40ishdmg on a weapon like a scythe is better than balth. You can choose whne to use the skills so hardly random.

even if you do hit it randomly, people are constantly activating skills. AoL triggers on EVERYTHING, people dont realize that, even attack skills count.